Fighting the Trolltooth Wars in 28mm. Advice please?

Hi all. Thantsants and I have embarked on a mad adventure. We are going to recreate on the tabletop (using WFB3) the conflict from Steve Jackson's Fighting Fantasy novel; the Trolltooth Wars. It's a fairly ambitious project but there is no need to rush so hopes are high!

The original post about concept ideas can be viewed at http://warlordpauluk.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/the-trolltooth-wars-project-concepts.html.

What we really need is some sound advice on miniatures. The look we are going for means individual metal minis are preferred although plastics are always an option if the look is right. This is what I need...

Numerous Hill Goblins. Seriously, numerous Hill Goblins. Really, they are closer to a Warhammer Orc than a Warhammer Goblin so any decent Orc miniature will do really. A little armour would be a bonus.

One tribe of fat Hill Goblins.

Orc rabble. I see them as unarmoured and poorly equipped.

Mixed 'drone' units of Barbarians, Black Elves, evil Dwarves, Ogres, Trolls and Kobolds. The Kobolds are probably more gobliny than doggy.

Assorted Chaotics. I actually have most of these pinned down, my big remaining problem are the 8 foot tall two-headed, cloaked, scythe-wielding humanoids. :?

I need some 'Eyeless Archers', what I was thinking was collecting a few Foundry Satyrs and green stuffing over the eye sockets. Let me know if you have any better ideas.

Thantsants will probably post a similar want-list on this thread sooner or later. If you see anything suitable-ish going cheap on ebay let us know because cost is going to be an issue of we're not careful!

This is going to be rumbling on for a while before we get it off the ground so if any ideas pop into your head just holler, all help is very much appreciated!
 

Thantsants

Member
8 foot two headed (well not yet...), scythe wielding humanoid?

Troll with scythe from Ral Partha



Obviously he needs a cloak and a second head yet!



I'm after 500 Soulless Ones and very much want to stick to the Chris Achilleos style armoured skeletons on the cover



and here...



Rhinomen are the tricky ones for me. There's a few nice rhinomen minis about but they tend to be huge and armed with a club or axe. I need a well drilled, pike-armed phalanx of them kitted out in the livery of Zharradan Marr!



The nearest I've got - which involves a fair bit of conversion work are Ral Partha Gargantua Orcs for the bodies





and these rhino heads from Hasslefree



The only problem being that the rhino heads are tiny - I'm thinking of grafting them on pretty much as is to the orc faces as a snout.

These guys would be great but not at £8 a go!

Also after Lizardmen that look like this



Black Elves



Craggeracks - apparently "resulted from the crossing of hobgoblins with trolls. They
have compact skulls and high, pointed ears over brownish-gray skin, and
long, slim limbs. They are in general slender creatures when compared
to most other Chaotic races, but they are no less strong and just as
warlike. They rarely see themselves as one nation or race, and prefer
to live apart from one another, in the tribes of orcs, goblins or
trolls. They are about as strong as the average orc, being about 5'9"
in height, only slightly taller than the average orc."

Found a little description about Gorians - Gorians: These bizarre creatures are tall and hairless, having
entirely black skin and feline eyes. They are not unlike some humans of
the southlands, but they have fang-filled mouths and hard, sharp talons
instead of fingernails.

Daramouss's Dungeon creatures should be fun -

Blood Orcs - Wild Goblinoid creatures with devil horns sticking out of their heads

Devourers - kind of a yeti/ape type creature

Clawbeasts - just weird!



Then there's Zharradan Marr's Marangha experiments which sound like something out of the Thing :twisted:
 
Those Mirliton ones look superb! Not an inconceivable price either, to do 37 tribes worth. Still need some fat ones from somewhere though!

With the Rhinomen, it should be possible to remove weapons and replace them with pikes made from plastic brush bristles. A brush head should be about 99p from the right shop and is the best way to make pikes in any army imho. The store well, travel well and don't pierce the skin 10 or 11 times each game! That may open up a few extra miniatures for use?
 

Just John

Moderator
Given the numbers of figures you need why not go to 15mm - ERM even have a range of Rhinomen

http://shop.eastridingminiatures.co.uk/rhinomen-124-c.asp

ft32-999-p.jpg


Other than that there's this guy from Reaper ($13)

figure_finder_image.php


Or this article on alternative Beastmen which you could add Rhino heads to

http://www.frothersunite.com/files/rob/Bmsc/Bmsc1.htm

Cheapest Orcs on the marke for use as your Hill Goblins have to be the plastics fro EM4, easy to convert too.
http://www.em4miniatures.com/acatalog/Copy_of_Fantasy.html

As for Fat goblins - how about these from Dark Sphere
30628.jpg
 

Thantsants

Member
Cheers John - the 15mm option is quite tempting as there's some lovely stuff out there - especially the Rhinomen. They're perfect!

Mind you, there's all that 15mm scenery to build for it though...

I've seen the Reaper Rhino before - just wish there were more poses and he was a little cheaper!

Should have thought to look at those Frothers miniature showcases - they're really good.

The fat goblins are cute :lol:

There were some Red Box ones which I seem to remember being quite podgy too?

I like the bristle pike idea Paul - the metal ones I have for my Perry pikemen are lethal!
 
Yeah, bristle pikes ftw. You can nip the end flat and trim it to a diamond shape easily too.

Love those fat Goblins Just John! Thanks for pointing those out. I have just emerged from several years gaming WW2 in 15mm and don't have any passion for it right now. As sensible as it would be for the final battle there is quite a bit of skirmishing leading up to that, so I'm going to see if we can make it work with 28mm (scale of Kings).

I think some of em4's bag 'o' Orcs will be necessary before we're done, depending on what ratio we opt for. 1:10 leaves us needing up to 500 figures each for the final battle with units up to 50 strong. It might be wiser to go 1:20, that way Dire's 5000 strong army only needs 250 miniatures to be represented on the tabletop. Marr's army is smaller still.

I want to avoid cutting too many corners because this would make an excellent show table in years to come. No doubt Thantsants' Rigg's Shrine and Orc's Drift scenarios can keep us busy for two years but in 24 months it would be amazing to put the Trolltooth Wars on at a show.

Help me with a link to those fat Goblins you mentioned Thantsants?
 

Just John

Moderator
I can understand the desire to game it in 28mm - it woould indeed make an impressive display game. You could always put out an appeal for 'mercenary' units and have a few other Oldhammerers contribute a unit of plastic EM4 orcs here or there - it would make us all feel part of it and the different painting styles would distinguish different tribes. Just a suggestion, but I'd be willing to raise a 'tribe'.
 

Thantsants

Member
They don't appear to be on the site - no doubt because he's retooling to cast them in plastic.

If you scroll down on the Red Box Kickstarter they appear as Goblin Bonebacks - lovely minis, but maybe a little too animated for the Stoneback tribe in Trolltooth - just noticed the similarity in names though!



Doesn't look like they'll be available for a while either.

John - I love the idea of tribes of Goblins flocking in from all parts of the UK. I may be wrong but I have a feeling WP might want them all under one roof so we can run the game now and again at local shows and clubs. Most kind of you to offer though!

I have toyed with a similar idea of setting up a different open ended campaign which would use the fact that we are all some distance away from each other - actually invading each other's patches and hopefully bringing down some allies with you. Add in some kind of resource management mechanic and consequences for successfully invading or defending territories like in Mighty Empires and it'd be a right laugh.

You overseas folk would of course have to fight a Man O war battle to get over here first ;)

That ratio of 1:20 for the final battle sounds about right - we'll just have to go a bit historical and keep notes/use markers to show the strengths of each unit as they take casualties in the battle. The skirmishes leading up to it should be fine in the good old ratio of 1:1 though.
 

Just John

Moderator
Thantsants":3pu4fdvm said:
John - I love the idea of tribes of Goblins flocking in from all parts of the UK. I may be wrong but I have a feeling WP might want them all under one roof so we can run the game now and again at local shows and clubs. Most kind of you to offer though!

Actually I meant that if you were going the route of EM4 then I would happily purchase a bag of 50, paint them up and send them off to either you or WP to fight on foreign shores. At least then I'd feel part of it as it toured around seeing as how I'm stuck out here on the verge of civilization :grin: The advantage of that of course is that you'd be able to afford a scale of 1:10 As I say though only if thats the road you go down.

Thantsants":3pu4fdvm said:
I have toyed with a similar idea of setting up a different open ended campaign which would use the fact that we are all some distance away from each other - actually invading each other's patches and hopefully bringing down some allies with you. Add in some kind of resource management mechanic and consequences for successfully invading or defending territories like in Mighty Empires and it'd be a right laugh.

Mr Saturday has something like that up and running over here - they use 7th or 8th ed (don't tell anyone) - using Campaign Hammer or some such thing,
 
I would bite the arm off anyone that wanted to contribute frankly! That would be wonderful and a superb example of community spirit and of course anyone is welcome to help or take part!

How that would work could vary. If you sort out, say, a tribe of Hill Goblins you could then lend or donate them to the Oldhammer travelling roadshow (the YOBBOS). They would be under one roof, even if some of them needed to return home at some stage. The idea would be to take Trolltooth to shows for a 12 month cycle. Even then, replacing units that return home would be easier than getting 100% ready before we roll a dice in anger.

Those Red Box Gobbos look good too, something else to consider.

1:1 for all games except the final battle definitely. Keeping track of a ratio change for the final battle should be simple enough, ie the least of our problems!
 

Just John

Moderator
Well then count me in, I'll wait until you've more details sorted, such as unit size etc, but I will contribute a unit of something to this project (preferably something cheap :grin:)
 

Chico

Member
I'd like to offer my services to help paint units, it can be done as easy as posting me a unit and i'll paint it and post it back. Just cover the postage costs :)
 

Zhu Bajie

Member
Always liked Citadel C20 Half Orcs for Fighting Fantasy Goblins, perhaps a bit on the tall side, but gangly and rag-tag enough,

c10halforcsc3.jpg


Saw these on frothers the other day from mierce-miniatures.

mrm_dkl_fmr_blr_min_500_000_01_large.png


too big and barbarian, but !

Also mentioned Games Workshops "secret" Fighting Fantasy wargame by Grame Davis: Fields of Battle published in Warlock 12. Might be worth a look, also does an upscale for unit ratio. Basically in Warhammer terms, W = Creatures Wounds * Number of troops in a unit, do the same for Attacks.

:mrgreen:
 
Hi Zhu, those Rhinomen are jaw-dropping! Shame they are too big and expensive. Thantsants and I have an e-copy of Warlock 12 now so we will be doing some stuff with those rules as an extra treat for all FF nuts! I agree with you on the C20 range, they will do for one tribe if I can get my paws on some.

Chico, Just John, that's amazing! Thank you both. I will be in touch to finalise details with you guys soon.
 

Thantsants

Member
Just John":34fzunlo said:
Actually I meant that if you were going the route of EM4 then I would happily purchase a bag of 50, paint them up and send them off to either you or WP to fight on foreign shores. At least then I'd feel part of it as it toured around seeing as how I'm stuck out here on the verge of civilization :grin: The advantage of that of course is that you'd be able to afford a scale of 1:10 As I say though only if thats the road you go down.

Wow - that's even more selfless than I realised! Muchos Kudos to you and Chico :mrgreen:

Might have to pick Mr S's brains on that Campaign Hammer some time in the distant future once we've got the Shrine of Rigg/Magnificent Sven/Kremlo the Slann and Trolltooth done!

Zhu - those Rhinos are lovely but like you say, too barbarous and woolly. Maybe as a small unit of Rhino berserkers... :twisted:

I've got about half of those C20 Half Orcs - lovely minis - She-Devil, Big Grin (stands in as Silas Meel the Half Orc Spy in Orc's Drift!), One Tooth, Sniper and Champion. I've got a few of the preslotta Half Orcs too which might come in handy?



Fileds of Battle looks great too - cheers for the tip.
 
We can probably lend each other some minis to speed things up. I have a dozen Nightmare Legion which may suit for Soulless Ones eg.

The only problem would be the roadshow, I have heard of too much theft going on at shows in recent times to risk taking something that's OOP.

Anyway, let's start at the beginning and remind ourselves what we need for the first scenario.

WP needs; One Foulblade on foot and one horse-mounted Foulblade (Foulblade is a Hill Goblin Chieftain). One Orcleaver (Hill Goblin Sergeant-at-Arms). Roughly 100-120 Hill Goblins (it is supposed to be a massacre after all, not a test of generalship).

T needs: One mounted Strongarm Captain. 37 Human warriors (a mixture of Legionaries and Strongarm mercs). A reasonable sized caravan with at least one wagon. One Donnag Kannu (Human) with wagon mounted/foot and mounted variations.

We will probably be OK for Hill Goblin minis (though if you have a good idea let me know because I have lots more to collect in the long run!) and we can do some investigating work on our own reconnaissance but does anyone know where to get a horse-mounted Goblin/Orc?
 

Thantsants

Member
I got a half orc hero on a horse - I'm at school getting some prep done for next week though at the mo so can't post a pic.

Here he is - as well as the foot version.

OOP again though!
 
That'll do very nicely! For the roadshow I will just get a Mirliton Wolf Rider and chuck him on one of the Gripping Beast horses I have lying around. Problem solved.
 

Thantsants

Member
He'll need some paint on him - the Mirliton idea is a good one too.

I might have to get one of their camp yetis to stand in as a Devourer - just because I find the mini so amusing :lol:

 
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