What was so great about 2nd Edition?

ardyer

Member
In a desperate attempt to work as little as possible today, I've found myself wondering what makes 2nd Ed. Warhammer so great? I've never played it, glanced through the rules a few times, but not enough to get the gist of the system. But I know a few here prefer it to 3rd (I'm looking at you John and Zhu). So what about 2nd is it that you like so much? And more importantly, why should I hunt down a copy of it ;)
 

Aiteal

Member
Not exactly what you asked I know, but, I'm also at work and can't face writing another line of code today so.....

I really like the aesthetics of the warhammer world in the 2nd edition.
I know that technically, it's the same world as the third edition, it just appears more Blanche-ian (if there is such a world). Blanche/Chalk illustrations from the second edition and early scenarios create a world that is very different (to my mind) from the 3rd edition onwards. It's 'bigger' and less explored by humans and 'feels' less centred on them.

That and my skeletons cost about a quarter of the points they did in 3rd edition ;)
I wish I could give a thorough analysis of the 2nd to 3rd edition changes, but to be honest, it's been so long, and with 3rd we tended to fast-play with just the basic rules, which was much close to the 2nd edition.

And you should hunt it down because you want that lovely box with the quintessential Warhammer painting on the front.
 

bug16

Member
Aiteal raises a lot of good points about 2nd. We played it exhaustively until 3rd edition came out. As much as I really enjoy 3rd edition I do still have a soft spot for 2nd and I think a lot of that comes from the wonderful artwork, which Aiteal mentions, giving it a coherent feel and it was when me and my then mates moved from the skirmish games we played with 1st to small armies with 2nd.

2nd is also great because the armies are pretty much spot on points value wise using the formula in the rulebook. The points formula in 3rd edition is more of a guideline than anything else. The Undead army in 3rd edition is massively overcosted and I prefer the feel of how the 2nd edition Undead army plays.
 

Just John

Moderator
As one of the accused I feel I should speak up. First and foremost it was the 1st wargame I owned as a kid and I just loved it, so while others hanker back to 3rd I go back as far as 2nd.

Secondly the rules are simple and fun - there is something almost intimidating about the size of the 3rd ed book, whereas 2nd is small and easier for old and addled brains to work through :grin:

As mentioned by others the artwork is great the game isn't centered on the human powers - or at least it doesn't feel like it is. Theres also a more free form feel to the world. Again these are all opinions that I have and are possibly based more in nostalgia than fact.

Finally - the cover of Ravening Hordes.

Finally finally - just go out and buy it and join the Olderhammer movement :grin:
 

Zhu Bajie

Member
The core rule-set is a flexible toolkit. You can design and create your own monsters that are balanced within the system, no "counts as" sillyness. That's a big bonus for me, the freedom that comes with that.

Aesthetics, it works, John Blanche, Dave Andrews, Gary Chalk all doing their thing. The main setting, Lustria, with Space Frog Gods, Amazons, all that sci-fantasy weirdness. It's not focused on the bland D&D Tolkien derived stuff of later editions. The classic campaigns - Orcs Drift, Lichemaster, McDeath - all 2nd Edition. The minigames - Good the Bad the Rusty - Kaleb Daark. 2nd Edition saw the invention of the Skaven, Chaos Dwarfs. Rogue Trader is a 2nd Edition supplement- it uses the exact same core mechanics and stats (none of the "+2" personal char modifiers) and adds laser-guns. Purely on a creative level 2nd Edition represents an exploration and outpouring of ideas that isn't really matched by any other.

Ruleswise, it's much the same as 3rd but without the maneuvers rules.
 
Zhu Bajie":y0iba1f1 said:
The core rule-set is a flexible toolkit. You can design and create your own monsters that are balanced within the system, no "counts as" sillyness. That's a big bonus for me, the freedom that comes with that.

Thanks for highlighting that post Zhu - I hadn't seen it before and its an interesting discussion. I started with 1st edition, and I well remember the create your own monster system that 2e introduced. Myself and my mates took it to an extreme though and prior to one battle we each withdrew to different rooms to draw up the "ultimate army". I wont bore you with the details but by the time we actually got to the table I "proved" that my army would win in any situation (it was an extreme and ridiculous army) and the battle never actually got fought. That was the first and last time we let PV dictate our battles :)
 

Zhu Bajie

Member
Citadel Collector":5rj4z9nm said:
Zhu Bajie":5rj4z9nm said:
The core rule-set is a flexible toolkit. You can design and create your own monsters that are balanced within the system, no "counts as" sillyness. That's a big bonus for me, the freedom that comes with that.

Thanks for highlighting that post Zhu - I hadn't seen it before and its an interesting discussion. I started with 1st edition, and I well remember the create your own monster system that 2e introduced. Myself and my mates took it to an extreme though and prior to one battle we each withdrew to different rooms to draw up the "ultimate army". I wont bore you with the details but by the time we actually got to the table I "proved" that my army would win in any situation (it was an extreme and ridiculous army) and the battle never actually got fought. That was the first and last time we let PV dictate our battles :)

Eek! We just used it to stat out things like Draconians and make sure you didn't have too many of them to the gully-dwarf.

Kind of reminds me of this quote from Gygax from the DMG (essential Oldhammer reading IMHO).

"It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules that is important. Never hold to the rules as written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rulebook upon you, if it goes against the obvious intent of the game." - Gary Gygax
 
Zhu Bajie":dhst65j0 said:
Citadel Collector":dhst65j0 said:
Zhu Bajie":dhst65j0 said:
The core rule-set is a flexible toolkit. You can design and create your own monsters that are balanced within the system, no "counts as" sillyness. That's a big bonus for me, the freedom that comes with that.

Thanks for highlighting that post Zhu - I hadn't seen it before and its an interesting discussion. I started with 1st edition, and I well remember the create your own monster system that 2e introduced. Myself and my mates took it to an extreme though and prior to one battle we each withdrew to different rooms to draw up the "ultimate army". I wont bore you with the details but by the time we actually got to the table I "proved" that my army would win in any situation (it was an extreme and ridiculous army) and the battle never actually got fought. That was the first and last time we let PV dictate our battles :)

Eek! We just used it to stat out things like Draconians and make sure you didn't have too many of them to the gully-dwarf.

Kind of reminds me of this quote from Gygax from the DMG (essential Oldhammer reading IMHO).

"It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules that is important. Never hold to the rules as written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rulebook upon you, if it goes against the obvious intent of the game." - Gary Gygax

I completely agree. But I guess that sometimes you have to descend into hell before you learn the true nature of the beast. :)
 

Naagruz

Member
Just John":1s1zoat1 said:
Secondly the rules are simple and fun - there is something almost intimidating about the size of the 3rd ed book, whereas 2nd is small and easier for old and addled brains to work through :grin:
This is why we kept running games of 2nd after we picked up 3rd. You almost had too much to work with in 3rd.

As mentioned elsewhere, the scenarios, art, humor, & "feel" of 2nd make it special. I also like that it isn't a really slick production & looks a bit like it was printed in someone's garage. :)
 

ardyer

Member
Thanks for the info everyone. I've been curious as the greatness would get referenced, but not much explanation given. I might try to dig up a copy on ebay or something to give it a re-read through--the shop owner at my FLGS when I was in undergrad had a copy and I read it then, but I didn't give it a ton of attention.

And Paul, odds of me getting to play a game are next to 0! I had to get a guy coming to town to see his mother to swing by a for a day just to schedule a game of 3rd, I doubt I'd find anyone who'd play 2nd!
 

Golgfag1

Moderator
:grin: Paul / Golgfag1 What you doing next weekend?



ardyer":1t33im82 said:
And Paul, odds of me getting to play a game are next to 0! I had to get a guy coming to town to see his mother to swing by a for a day just to schedule a game of 3rd, I doubt I'd find anyone who'd play 2nd!
 

ardyer

Member
Golgfag1":45aiddez said:
:grin: Paul / Golgfag1 What you doing next weekend?



ardyer":45aiddez said:
And Paul, odds of me getting to play a game are next to 0! I had to get a guy coming to town to see his mother to swing by a for a day just to schedule a game of 3rd, I doubt I'd find anyone who'd play 2nd!

I can tell you that I won't be making a trans-Atlantic flight for a game of warhammer :grin:
 

Golgfag1

Moderator
Aw, wheres your spirit of adventure?

Paul / Golgfag1

][/quote]

I can tell you that I won't be making a trans-Atlantic flight for a game of warhammer :grin:[/quote]
 
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